POLL: Should the Supreme Court Overturn Obama’s Health Care Law?
The country's highest court is set to rule Thursday on the Affordable Care Act.
It’s an epic decision that could change the way health care is approached in the United States.
The Supreme Court is scheduled to decide Thursday, according to Huffington Post, on the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act, signed into law March 23, 2010.
In Howard County, the Healthy Howard Health Plan for uninsured residents could be used as a model for other counties nationwide should the federal law be struck down.
Anne Arundel County has its own program for uninsured residents: The Department of Health and the Anne Arundel County Medical Society partner with community doctors and providers to offer low-cost health care services through the REACH Program (Residents Access to a Coalition of Health).
The Supreme Court’s decision will include a ruling on the constitutionality of the law's “individual mandate” requiring all U.S. citizens to buy health insurance.
Opponents of the mandate say it’s an unprecedented exercise of congressional power—requiring people to buy something—and could be expanded to cars to help the auto industry, or even broccoli.
Obama has argued that the commerce clause in the Constitution allows Congress to regulate health care, and that expanding coverage would lower costs, according to the Economist, which summarizes both the supporting and opposing arguments to the issues that have been debated at the high court.
In Maryland, about 750,000 people were uninsured between 2009 and 2010, according to Linda Bartnyska, chief of cost and quality analysis at the Maryland Health Care Commission.
Leave a comment to let us know where you stand on this issue and vote in the poll below.
Lynn Tanis
4:46 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
Yes it should be overturned and I pray that the Supreme Court will do so.
John
5:22 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
It would be the first time in our nation's history that we're mandated to purchase something.
I've heard a bunch of bad analogies; car insurance. Wrong - not if you don't own a car. Homeowners. Wrong again - rent.
Then argument then is "but I can't choose not to go into the health care system." Correct, but I can choose to either pay for it out of pocket or I risk not getting care. That's my choice to make.
Susanna
10:21 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
Those are terrible analogies. Luckily, there are much better analogies out there. I put this more in the category of being required to pay for public education-even though I don't have kids. I also pay for fire departments, though hopefully I'll never have a fire. Libraries, police roads to drive on (even if I never do)...these are all thing I pay for, from my taxes, for the public good.
Richard Hertz
11:18 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
Susanna: It appears that you don't quite understand the nature of the case.
Mary
8:27 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Susanna I think you understand the nature perfectly. People need to understand that you are already paying for people without health insurance and at a much higher rate than you would with tax dollar health insurance subsidies. Many people without health insurance do not get proper wellness care and therefore end up at the hospital ER instead of a physician's office.
Richard Hertz
5:15 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Susanna, it looks like you have some company. If you and Mary send me your addresses I'll be happy to send you a copy of the Constitution...which neither of you seem to understand.
Susanna
10:37 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Okay Richard, I'll bite. There's dozens of comments here about how this is unconstitutional, but I haven't seen one (granted, I haven't read all the ones posted this evening yet) explaining exactly where in the Constitution a national health care plan is prohibited. Please point that section out to me and share how exactly Obama's heath care plan goes against it. I even reread the Constitution as transcribed on www.archives.gov looking for that part. Please be very specific, as I'm clearly having a hard time understanding. Thanks!
Richard Hertz
10:48 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Susanna: Don't forget the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments), which had to be added in order for the Constitution to get enough votes to pass. Specifically, the tenth amendment says:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Obviously, the Constitution does not deal with health insurance. Therefore, that issue is left the states and or the people to deal with.
Sandy
5:49 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
John - doctors are ethically forbidden to not give people care. You'll never hear a doctor say "You can't afford to pay for this procedure? OK, go ahead and die." Furthermore, I've never heard of a person saying "I don't have the money to pay for this procedure out of pocket, so I'm fine with dying."
John
6:00 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
@Sandy. Incorrect. Walk into any doctor's office of your choice and tell them you need care but don't have insurance or any means to pay. You'll be walking out the door.
Show up at RightTime and tell them you have a sever ear infection, but don't have insurance or their $90 fee. They'll show you the door.
LevelheadedOne
8:33 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
John, Walk into a hospital then. They won't turn anyone away. Some people even use the ER as a clinic for colds or the flu. If someone walked into your office and demanded services without having the means to pay for them, I'm sure you wouldn't feel too happy about letting them stay. I understand why individual doctors say no, especially when hospitals say yes.
Susan
6:57 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
I don't understand why a system that was conceived by Republicans is now the worst thing that could possibly happen in America. Could it be that it was embraced by progressives and therefore is now considered a bad thing? Why not make people who have been letting the rest of us pull their weight, finally have to pay toward their coverage? Sounds like something conservatives should like.
Richard Hertz
11:20 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
You can make it a republican vs. democrat issue if you want...in your own mind. But the Supreme Court will strike down this abominable law based on the Constitution, not politics.
Robert Minghini
6:06 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Why, pray tell, if the people that were not paying before are paying now have my health care cost (specifically my premiums) gone up drastically? I suspect to cover the people that couldn't afford to pay before and will not be paying now. I have less coverage, pay more and get fined if i don't like it. Who in their right mind would like that?
Joe Robinson
8:51 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
@sandy - the point is it is unconstitutional. We are not a Socialist country! I hope none of you have elderly parents who, God Forbid, have any healthhcare issue. They will be told, 'Well, you are 82, you've had a long productive life'. Hope you yourself have no pre-existing conditions or don't develop a condition because your coverage for any item will be decided upon not by a healthcare professions but by an pencil pushing underwriter. How's this - 'oh sir, we will not be covering you for your diabetes because you are just too fat. Too bad. Go on a diet and then we will talk'. This socialistic approach will not work. Just ask all the people from Canada who died of cancer waiting for treatment.
Theresa
9:11 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
The results of this poll really makes me sad. No wait, mad...it makes me mad!
Richard Hertz
11:22 pm on Tuesday, June 26, 2012
Maybe it should make you read the Constitution.
Mary
8:30 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Richard, are you a constitutional scholar or lawyer?
Patrick Mondor
10:37 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Mary,
You have to be a constitutional scholar or lawyer to read the constitution? Wow. I just read it and I'm neither a lawyer or scholar. Well written, concise and and incredibly forward thinking document crafted by our founding fathers. I must have missed the section on mandated health care.
Richard Hertz
5:27 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Mary,
I'm not a lawyer. I can, however, read. One need not be a constitutional scholar to understand the Constitution. It's very short, easy to read, and easy to understand...three qualities definitely NOT shared by the so-called Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which like most legislation is grossly misnamed.
Nancy Pelosi's response when someone asked her what part of the Constitution gave Congress the power to enact such legislation: "Are you serious?" Indeed, it was a serious question...and tomorrow the Supreme Court show everyone just how serious the question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08uk99L8oqQ
Mary
5:32 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I was just asking for his level of experience. I have also read the Constitution (am
Nd have a copy - but thank you for the offer). I however, don't see that it prohibits the mandate. I'll wait to see the opinions for the court tomorrow.
Richard Hertz
6:30 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Mary: Here's the tenth amendment to the Constitution:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
With that in mind, if you can't find the specific part of the document that says the federal government has the authority to force citizens to purchase health insurance (and, of course, you can't because it's not there), that's what you might call a "prohibition against the mandate."
Susanna
10:44 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Oh okay. There it is. So I return to my earlier point. If this applies to heath care, how does it not apply to public education? Because a lot of my tax dollars are going to that. If it's unconstitutional, can someone take care of that now? I could use the extra money in my paycheck. And Medicare? Why are we paying for heath care for the elderly? Did every state agree to that independently? If one in unconstitutional, then they all are.
Richard Hertz
11:06 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Susanna: This is where it gets a little complicated. Obamination and crew insisted on forcing this through not as a tax, but under the Commerce Clause. The federal govt, as we all know very well, certainly has the power to tax. However, it's very likely that it wouldn't have passed if it was properly described as a tax...remember, he ran for President on the lie that he would not raise taxes on low-middle income people.
The beauty of that is that the Supreme Court is going to strike down the law partly on evidence put forth by Obamination himself (that Obaminationcare is NOT a tax). How's that for irony?
Eric Smith
8:34 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
The health insurance mandate and the Supreme Court are all the rage in the news. I'm cool with people not paying health insurance, but I'd take the hard core position that you and your family shouldn't receive any emergency care or any of the other care our paying lets you have. If the law is struck down, then it is only fair that this one gets repealed too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act
I do believe though that if it gets struck down, then that will put us on a faster path to a single payer system. Eventually the people in this country will realize that paying twice as much per capita than every other normal country for WORSE CARE just isn't going to cut it. YOU UNDERSTAND RIGHT? WORSE CARE! The opponents to it are simply in the insurance companies pockets. VOTE OUT ANYONE WHO DOESN'T WANT HEALTH CARE WITH A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM! THEY DO NOT GOVERN WITH FACTS!
Tommy Warshaw III
9:02 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
It is interesting that you say "worse care" when citizens from lots of other countries continue to be sent here for better healthcare.
Chet Brewer
9:52 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
interesting point, get rid of the care mandate and leave them dying on the streets, kind of like the fire departments that let homes burn if a home owner didn't pay their fee. You might be scared of the reaction however, letting homes burn is acceptable in several counties of MS, AL, GA, and TN. I love all the breathless hyperbole about how its unconstitutional and everyone knows it. It will be a 5-4 decision and everyone knows that leaves it ripe for overturning when Thomas or scalia dies (most likely next ones due to age. Tommy, citizens from third world countries are sent here for medical care that is not available in their country but is for sale here if their families are rich enough or a charity gets involved., However, more and more Americans are leaving the US for affordable surgery in developing countries that have a decent medical base. Several asian countries fall into this category
Tommy Warshaw III
10:09 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Chet,
I wasn't aware of that last point. Thank you for the info.
Richard Hertz
9:29 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Chet: Why do you think healthcare in the US costs so much? Is it because the gov't has had a hands off approach of the past 75 years? Is it private enterprise run amok, completely unregulated by government?
Which industry do you think is more regulated...healthcare or the shoe industry? And which one has costs/prices that are completely out of control, pricing many people out of the market?
Go ahead and tell me how "healthcare is different and has to be regulated." If there was a federal shoe administration there would be a shortage of shoes and 25% of the country wouldn't be able to afford shoes without govt assistance.
Amy Leahy
8:37 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
This is not only an unconstitutional mandate, but robs us of our money and our choices - freedom, if you will - in the area of health care. I cannot imagine having to deal with a government agency for my healthcare decisions.
Chet Brewer
9:55 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
so you like the freedom to force everyone else to pay for their emergency care when they have to go to the ER, or perhaps you think they should be left to die on the street. Those are really your two options
Richard Hertz
5:41 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Chet: please show me the articles describing all the people dying in the street before 1965.
Additionally, are those really the ONLY two options? Or are you creating an either-or fallacy?
Arbutus Town Crier
11:23 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Chet, can you tell me way the insurance companies Are not allowed to compete across state lines?
LevelheadedOne
8:59 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Mary,
I think Richard is an educated American. It's pretty clear cut that this was not a constitutional move by the administration.
Chet Brewer
9:54 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Thats in the eye of the beholder. "the perceived intelligence of a person is directly correlated to how much you agree with them"
LevelheadedOne
11:53 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Well then Chet, if that's how you say I should judge intelligence, I think would have to say that you're pretty stupid, but that's not how I was raised. So, I would rather think that Richard has read the Constitution and has an understanding of the language, and can therefore make the conclusion that what the administration forced through was unconstitutional. You and I aren't going to agree on much so let's not bother trying to convince each other. Good day.
Richard Hertz
5:45 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Fine, Chet, if you're so smart, please show me what part of the Constitution allows the federal govt the authority to require that I purchase health insurance. I'll be waiting for your answer.
Matt
9:11 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
For those honestly looking to learn and debate a very real issue, here is the best write up (from a non-bias point as possible) about the health care law and what it actually does.
http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare_and_what_did_it/c530lfx
TM
9:44 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I WORK in healthcare and am wholly opposed to any solution that doesn't address the actual problems with the current free market system. Obama's legislation doesn't even have items like portability and tort-reform IN the monolithic act. It's an absolute affront to the Constitution as well - if the SCOTUS DOESNT over turn ALL of it we might as well just rip up the Constitution altogether. This poor document has been so abused over the last 40-50 years - it's on life support right now - tomorrow will decide whether we as a nation pull the plug or not...
Susanna
4:16 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Well, for the first 175 years we had a constitution we kept people in slavery, internment camps, and restricted the right to vote based on their gender. That's just off the top of my head. So I'm thinking the United States Constitution has seen worse abuse.
Richard Hertz
5:58 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
So Susanna, it's your opinion that since there have been prior abuses of the Constitution one more won't matter?
Also, please point me to the part of the original Constitution that banned slavery or the right to vote based on gender. I think you'll find, if you bother to search, that those topics were not discussed by the Constitution. However because they were indeed important subjects where people were wronged, they were corrected by amendments to the Constitution.
Now, if you and your lefty friends are so in love with the so-called Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, go ahead and try to amend the Constitution so that such an atrocity would be legally permissible.
TM
9:46 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I'm curious why the Huffington Post is even mentioned in this article too - you do realize that's about as left leaning a source as you could find right? Even if it is just to reference the ruling being decided tomorrow - any more moderate news source could have easily been referenced as well...
Donna Sullivan
10:02 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
All one needs to do is to look at health care in countries such as England and Canada and ask themselves is this what we want in the United States. In England, expectant mothers do not get prenatal care. The mother is told to show up when she is in labor to one of the midwife facilities. Ask the Canadians how they like their "free" care. If the Canadian government deems that you are not a good candidate for surgery, guess where they go if they want to live--the good old USA. . Most of the hospitals in England are at least 50 plus years old. As Americans, we must ask ourselves, do we want to end up like Europe and Canada with their approach to medical care? We can be sure that Obama will not let his family have the health care that he invisions for the masses. I want to know why we cannot have the health care plans made available to Obama and Congress. Is this another Obama, "don't do as I do, do as I say." We had better hope that the Supreme Court is on the side of the law and the things that made this country great. When the court votes this down, it will make Obama look like the biggiest idiot, since he has be touting his vast experience as a constiutuional lawyer. This ruling from the Court will lose Obama the election.
Brian
11:32 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Your examples of health care in Canada are simply not true. http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/
For the record Canada has private insurers and private medical facilities. Both which can be accessed by its citizens.
The hospitals in England are that old because England ( ~1100 years) is so much older that the United States of America (~300 years). Only make sense that England's infrastructure is older.
TM
10:05 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
So I'm curious WHO is being left to die in the streets? At my hospital everyone is treated and accepted - no one is turned away. I'm not saying the current system doesn't have need for overhaul - but outright replacement by the Federal Government who cannot manage Medicare/Medicaid NOW (or virtually anything for that matter) properly is insanity. I'm thrilled to see the majority of pollsters here agree it must be overturned. I just wonder where all these people were when the election came around. Or when O'Malley got another 4 years. Is the patch read only by Libertarians like myself???? ;)
LevelheadedOne
11:32 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I wondered the exact thing! Where were all of these people when O'Malley (=Obama junior) was re-elected?? Why don't people get that? The wonder why they keep getting bitten but still stick their hands in the snake's cage. Re: people being"left to die in the streets" is something people say to invoke fear in those who don't read anything but left wing dribble.
TM
10:09 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Any comparison of this nation to others in the context of the healthcare discussion is wholly invalid - we are not Norway nor are we the UK or Canada. The US has a unique healthcare foundation in place - with a few tweaks like tort and portability for starters it could be even better than it is now. No one finds it ironic that neither of these solutions are even IN the legislation? You all HAVE read every page of the bill right? You know the one Pelosi said "We have to pass it - to find out what is in it..."?
Jim Davis
10:27 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Lets add a different dimension to this. Do you want to trust Congress with your health? Medicare is a good example. Yes it works and most seniors are well taken care of. But each year Congress has to take emergency action to prevent drastic cuts to the doctor's reimbursement rate. This emergency action has been required for at least the last decade. There is a requirement in Federal Law called the Sustainable Growth Rate which mandates annual changes in what your doctor is paid for each service and each year it has called for a reduction in payment. The reduction for next year will be on the order of 30+% unless Congress prevents it. While most Congressional members acknowledge the formula is flawed, they don't have the will (guts) to correct it. Like Social Security, the Medicare funds have been borrowed by Congress to allow them to increase spending on their favorite projects and now the IOU's are coming due causing major budget problems. Should I point out that both Trent Lott and Al Gore were very clear that it was wrong to "borrow" the money and those specific funds should be "Put in a Lock Box and out of Congressional hands". I personally do not want their greedy fingers grubbing in the health care pot.
There are things that they can do to make coverage more affordable and easily obtained, but...............................
Sandy
10:40 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
@Donna- In my conversations with people from Europe and Canada, they don't complain about their health care system. In fact, they are thankful that they have a system in which they know they can receive care without having to worry if they can afford it. They all think we are crazy!
And if the health care system is so bad in Europe and Canada, why is their infant mortality rate lower than ours?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
Donna Sullivan
11:24 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Sandy, do you remember the cornerstone of Hillary Clinton's healtcare reform. Graduate fewer doctors from medical schools, Ms. Clinton believed that less access to fewer doctors will bring costs down. It sure would, that is exactly what is done in any country that has universal healthcare. The key words here "less access." That is not what Americans want. Are you saying that care is "free" is these countries, it is not. Last year Canada raised taxes substantially to cover their "free" healthcare, it is just that the people don't see it coming out of their paychecks as we do. I forget what the Canadian government called the tax, but it had nothing that sounded like healthcare. As far as infant mortality, there are many factors that are tied to this rate, not only access to healthcare. And if England keeps up zero prenatal care, they will be down there with the third world countries.
Barbara
8:12 pm on Thursday, June 28, 2012
Every Canadian I know HATES their system. They travel regularly to NY to get what we call routine tests and health care that take 6 months to a year to get approved in the Canadian Health care system. This is not the type of control we need nor should we be stupid enought to want.
TM
10:48 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
@Sandy - in my conversations with Euros and Canadians et al my experience has been the complete opposite. Which is why many of them come here for comprehensive healthcare rather than wait on a list or have inferior physicians. Perspective varies widely but this is why we cannot begin to compare our system to that of another country. WE ARE NOT THE UK OR CANADA....
John
11:39 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
When a Canadian premier, Danny Williams needed surgery, he flew to the U.S. This caused quite the uproar in Canada and his only statement was that "it was a private matter."
Telling.
cynthia
1:03 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Come on folks, this is NOT about health or care. It is strictly about GOVERNMENT POWER and CONTROL.
Furthermore, this bill was not even written by the people that serve in the Congress. It was written by the Apollo Group (headed by Jeff Jones). Disgracefully, most that are in Congress and voted for it, did NOT even read the monstrosity bill. Remember, Nancy Pelosi said, "You have to pass the Bill to see what is in it." Americans NEED to wake up, we are losing our freedoms everyday. Look up Cloward and Piven. It will enlighten you and then spread the word.
Remember it is WE THE PEOPLE!
The objective is to put private health insurance companies out of business so that everyone will be on the government dole. All of this is not a secret. The politicians are
lying about this when you see them on tv. The mainstream media is covering for them.
Lois
3:07 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Why do people not understand that we all pay for the uninsured? We pay for their care in Medicad programs( our taxes). Those of us who have Health Care insurance pay higher amounts to cover the uninsured. Hospitals are passing the cost of treating the uninsured on to the insured. That is why Health insurance has risen. The American people need Health Insurance that is affordable to all & all should be required to carry it. We are all required to carry Car Insurance if we drive. Why are we protesting Health Care & not Car Insurance? We also need to look at cutting the costs of care & liability judgements these increase everyones cost.
delivering health care
Richard Hertz
6:11 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Lois, you can now join Susanna and Mary as you very clearly do not understand the nature of the case. I'm going to give you a clue because I feel sorry for people like you that go around exposing your own ignorance by making ridiculous comments on the internet.
Here are your clues:
A- "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
B- Laws requiring you to purchase auto insurance are state laws.
Now, see if you can put those two clues together and figure out why the Supreme Court will tomorrow strike down the so-called Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
Mary
7:52 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Richard, your condescending tone does nothing to enhance your arguments.
Richard Hertz
9:31 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Mary: Neither does your ignorance.
TM
3:13 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Wow I'm not even sure where to begin with that one - YES we pay for the uninsured - we do for uninsured motorists too. It's part of being involved in risk-based businesses but you cannot for a minute compare health insurance to car insurance. For example car insurance does NOT cover you if you treat your car like garbage for it's functional lifetime. But you expect taxypayer funded health insurance to treat someone, for free, who has eaten poorly, smoked, and drank excessively their entire life? CMON that's not even a valid part of this discussion...
Susanna
4:25 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Personally I'm happy to have taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, and processed food items to pay for the care of people who abuse them, because I do agree those people should contribute more towards the health care system. You probably don't like that answer, though. :)
Richard Hertz
6:14 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Susanna: I'm glad to see you understand the relationship between taxes and behavior. Perhaps you can explain to me why the government would tax something as desirable as work, when everyone knows that when you tax something you will get less of it.
Susanna
10:50 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Are you really debating whether or not we should have income taxes here? That seems like a whole different argument when this page has plenty enough to argue about with the topic at hand.
Lois
4:31 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
TM does working in Health Care make you the know all be all by anwering everyones comment? I too work in Health Care & have for many years. All citizens should have Health Care & pay for it if they can. Who is going to police the Obese etc. You?
Thomas Michaels
4:45 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
It is hard to miss the humor in this (well, it would be funny if it weren't so sad). The Obama care plan was created by the very conservative Heritage Foundation and was the Republican position in opposition to the Clinton plan and right up to the point the Republican insurance executives came to Obama and proposed it as an alternative to the plan he originally proposed so that the legislation could get passed. The funny thing is that the Republicans (whose most single important issue is opposition for the sake of opposition) who originally tauted this plan as a way to address the health care crisis without the government being involved in either insuring or providing health care and as a way to promote individual responsibility, then pulled a quick reversal of positions and declared it socialism and unconstitutional!! Amazing. Not surprising, but amazing.
Richard Hertz
6:21 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
It's true that the Heritage Foundation was one of the early advocates of an individual mandate (whether they actually came up with the idea is in dispute).
However...it was just an idea. Neither HF nor the Republican Party ever actually tried to pass legislature on an individual mandate. We don't know exactly why they gave up on the idea, but it's entirely possible that upon deeper consideration they determined that it would not be Constitutional on the federal level.
Thomas Michaels
7:39 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I would be open to hearing anything suggesting that Republicans rejected the idea at any point prior to Obama adopting their position. I know during the Republican debates this year I heard Newt acknowledge that the idea came from the Heritage Foundation and there was another question to the candidates about this fact that none disputed. It was Bob Dole's position and I'm pretty sure the Republicans did offer it up as legislation as the alternative to the Clinton plan. It's no accident that Romney promoted it in Massachusetts; it was the Republican position generally. And he spoke favorably of Obama doing it when Obama turned to that position part way through the effort to pass health care legislation. One thing that is also clear is that it isn't remotely a socialist position, unlike Medicare or Social Security (an idea that literally came from the Socialist Party).
Richard Hertz
9:44 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
First of all, the idea floated around at least from the late 80s to early 90s. The first reference I know of that comes from HF is the early 90s.
So, let's look at whether or not there is any evidence that the Republicans ever rejected it prior to Obamination. The Republicans controlled the Presidency and both Houses of Congress in the years 2001-2002 and 2003-2007. Thomas, perhaps you can help me out here...I can't seem to find where the Republicans tried to force individual mandate legislation through but were blocked by those level-headed Democrats. How about you?
That seems to be pretty clear evidence that the Republicans REJECTED the individual mandate...they controlled Washington politics completely, and despite enacting a myriad of idiotic legislation, they never bothered with an individual mandate..
ER
8:56 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
This idea has been in and out of congress for years, never formulated as to action plan. No plan will be satisfactory, especially with cost to the taxpayer, higher insurance premium costs and waivers for the federal government to pick up the tab for low wage earners.
Obama initially campaigned to reduce health care cost for Americans and as usual the plan is perverted as he flip-flops for votes. As the law stands, its Unconstituional, however I do see the value certain provisions for coverage. Some being pre existing condition and no premiums hikes for higher cost if presently ill. The ability to buy insurance across state lines just makes sense. Joining a group or membership to reduce premiums will spawn competition and reduce out of pocket cost allowing more people to afford health care, but not mandate you have to purchase or pay the penalty.
TM
10:07 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Repeal ObamaCare and end its unconstitutional mandate that all Americans must carry only government-approved health insurance or answer to the IRS.
* Allow purchase of health insurance across state lines.
* Provide tax credits and deductions for all medical expenses.
* Exempt those with terminal illnesses from the employee portion of payroll taxes while they are suffering from such illnesses or are incurring significant medical costs associated with their conditions.
* Give a payroll deduction to any worker who is the primary caregiver for a spouse, parent, or child with a terminal illness.
* Ensure that those harmed during medical treatment receive fair compensation while reducing the burden of costly malpractice litigation on the health care system by providing a tax credit for “negative outcomes” insurance purchased before medical treatment.
* Guarantee that what is taken from taxpayers to pay for Medicare and Medicaid is not raided for other purposes.
* Make all Americans eligible for Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) and remove government-imposed barriers to obtaining HSAs.
Ronald
10:55 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Revise the compensation laws for medical malpractice. Everyone makes mistakes - why punish doctors and nurses? If you look at the numbers this country's economy is going to continue DOWNWARDS until around 2020. Taxes WILL go up at the end of the year and the expiration of Bush's Incentives AND this country will continue to spend more than it takes in. Move over Greece - here we come!!!!!
TM
10:07 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
* Stop the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) from interfering with Americans’ knowledge of and access to dietary supplements and alternative treatments.
* Prevent federal bureaucrats from tracking every citizen’s medical history from cradle to grave by prohibiting the use of taxpayer funds for a national database of personal health information.
TM
10:08 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Our system ROCKS - it needs a few tweaks - as I've proposed here... THATS IT...
Judith Moylan-Forman
10:18 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
@ Richard Hertz: While President Clinton was pushing for employers to cover their workers in his 1993 bill, John Chafee of Rhode Island, along with 20 other GOP senators and Rep. Bill Thomas of California, introduced legislation that instead featured an individual mandate. Four of those Republican co-sponsors were Orin Hatch, Charles Grassley of Iowa, Robert Bennett of Utah and Christopher Bond of Missouri.
Richard Hertz
10:33 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
What's your point? That legislation did not become law. That means it was rejected.
Lest anyone here think I'm defending the Republican party, I'm not. They're barely more tolerable than the Democrats. However, it's very clear that the Republican party on the whole never embraced an individual mandate, so to say they rejected it only lately, and only to obstruct Obamination is just completely false.
TM
10:50 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
I pray the SCOTUS upholds the US Constitution tomorrow. That's it... I pray for this nation but God is Sovreign in all things - that's my salvation...
Ronald
10:52 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Leave it alone by a vote of 6-3. Socialism here we come. Why work when you can get it for free?
charleszsmith
4:56 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
There can be a difference between what you and a health insurance company consider healthy. Some insurers will say that you have a health condition if you smoke, are overweight, are taking prescriptions, or had a medical condition in the past. If this describes you, you may want to search and read "Penny Health" on the web.
TM
9:27 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
The interesting thing is not a single bullet point in the plan I laid out just now is mentioned in the billion page legislation. Hmmm wonder why that is?
bobby green
10:05 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
The only time I see myself going to a doctor is in the ER. So I always had a policy that just covered illness and hospitalization for some reason after Obama care starting going into effect it went up 300%. Not sure how that is making it affordably for everyone, in fact I said to with that and stoped paying.
TM
10:14 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012
Most insurances price based on risk factors. If you're a lousy driver with a thick record you'll get high rates. I fail to see how, fiscally, with our population numbers and not even mentioning illegal immigrants, we can afford to cover everyone, regardless of their health presently or their past lifestyle choices. Name me a country with our size, and population, that has been able to pull this off. I've laid out bullet points that would be easy to implement and wholly make the current system equitable, profitable, and affordable. NOT FREE - but very affordable. Free healthcare is available now - through many sources in this country for those who fall outside the 'affordable' umbrella. If you state sponsor free healthcare EVERYONE is going to fall outside the 'affordable' umbrella. If you give someone 2+ years of unemployment they will typically take 2+ years to find another job... How this is hard to understand baffles me.
Barbara
8:18 pm on Thursday, June 28, 2012
We the people have lost yet again. It is hard to imagine that we have allowed this insanity to go on so long. 2012 is an election year. Let's get out and vote and put a stop to this insanity on capital Hill. If you don't vote then you are part of the problem.