Of course the start time is too early for teenagers. Flip flop the times for elementary and high school. Elementary school children go to bed earlier and get up earlier. Problem solved.

Dot, I said that very thing this morning- flip the times! Great minds think alike.

I wish it were that easy--and it should be. But once you get involved in the politics of this issue, you'll quickly see that people will come up with all kinds of passionate objections to this simple and sensible idea. Some people will claim that moving high schools later will kill high school sports, after-school jobs, teacher training programs, daycare arrangements, etc. Others will decry the idea of 5-year-olds standing in dark with no teenager home to get them at the end of the school day. Many of these objections reflect a basic misunderstanding of the issue (plenty of school systems start high schools later, and the world adjusts around that just fine) or a failure of the imagination (there are plenty of creative ways to solve a problem if there's a will to do so). But because even the simplest suggestion unleashes a storm of unfounded fears, I think the only solution is to REQUIRE a humane and common-sense start time, the kind of start time schools had before busing issues starting driving (literally) school hours. That's why I started the online petition when the opportunity to reach national ears arose, and I beg anyone who wants to see a change in this lifetime to click the link above and sign it. Thanks!

If we stick to what is best for our kids then everything else is just an inconvenience. Change the time!

I've been fighting with this for 20 years. High school should start later. Science speaks to this. My kids and I have suffered through this. It affects grades and emotions. Both critical to a teenager's success in many areas. Additionally, specific to Severna Park, crossing Benfield in the dark, such as this morning, is down right dangerous. Sleepy teenagers on the road, both walking and driving, is a volatile combination.

I signed in to the White House page to sign the peitition, but the linked is grayed out and I cannot sign it.

After signing up for a new account on The White House I found that you need to log out and log back in to sign the petition.

There is a reason that no other school systems start this early and private schools do not start this early. The argument about the buses has been continuous over the years. The school system finds money when they want to. I can't think of anything more important to high schoolers than starting at a more reasonable time.

Something is really wrong when I see kids walking on B&A in the dark in the morning. I don't think any student should have to go to school that early. Why not have the HS and the Middle School start at the same time? You could still use the same number of bus drivers (or only a few more) by making the bus routes a little longer. With a longer bus route (even just 10-15 minutes), you can add more students to each bus and use the same number of bus drivers, even though more bus routes are launching earlier. Find the buses with the most room and launch them earlier. (Yes, I did route restructuring for an express delivery company living before kids and it can be done....)

Our children's safety is worth looking at this kind of solution.

Of course, I don't mean launch the high school routes earlier, just that instead of taking 20 minutes on a bus ride, make the ride 35 minutes and start the kids that much LATER!

Another interesting case study, Folger had to start later to make use of the existing drivers in the new location. So there are more ways to skin a cat....

Thanks to everyone who has already signed the petition. As of right now, we need just 32 more signatures to pass the first hurdle--which will make the petition searchable--so if you haven't signed it yet, please go to http://wh.gov/2qJ and help us reach 150 today). Then it's on to the final hurdle: 5,000 signatures by Nov. 2! That's a daunting goal, but we can do it if everyone who cares about this helps spread the word.

Sarah Garza is correct. To sign a petition, you must first create an account with a password. Then you must sign out and sign in again. Only then can you sign the petition. It's very confusing but that's the design, which will hopefully change as the White House presumably tries to create a more user friendly website. For more information on the new White House petition website, see "The White House's New We the People Petition Website" available at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jh-snider/we-the-people-petitions_b_1004466.html.

9 more signatures needed! Please keep passing along this information!

Yes! We’ve jumped the first hurdle—150 signatures thanks to all of you, which makes the petition searchable on the whitehouse.gov website. Now the really hard part begins: if we’re going to get the 5,000 signatures needed by Nov. 2 for a White House response, we all have to spread the word far and wide. Get your family to sign, tell your friends and neighbors, and put the petition in your Facebook status. Send the link to the petition, http://wh.gov/2qJ, to as many people as you can via email, Facebook, and/or Twitter. We can do this! As Margaret Mead famously said: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. In fact, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

I am glad you got your signatures. When did SPHS change it's starting hours? My kids went there 20+ years ago and didn't start at 7:17 -- much too early!! They were all able to play after school sports and/or work. So many teens drive to school now and new drivers driving in the morning darkness is dangerous.

Absolutely right, Barb! Your memories are critical because they illustrate what so many people with younger kids forget or never realized: it wasn't always like this, and, in fact, life has and can go on with later school hours. My daughter, now a college senior, made a documentary about the history of this problem a few years ago and interviewed many teachers at SPHS. One who has been there over 40 years explained that the times changed in the 1980s, I believe (without any public input) to accomodate the bus schedules (buses could be reused if kids in elementary, middle, and high school went at different times). How Anne Arundel County ended up with the very earliest time in the state (and one of the earliest in the USA) is an interesting tale that he explained as well. Today many people have come to think of 7:17 a.m. as normal and necessary and have adjusted their lives accordingly, even though more evidence appears every day that we're harming our children, our younger teachers, and, as you point out, the community as a whole. It's also clear that this problem is never going to be solved on a local level, so, again, please keep encouraging people to sign the petition (which is now indexed but needs over 4800 more names by Nov. 2).

I've tried to sign in as well and have created an account, signed out, signed back in and it's still greyed out! Very maddening! I'll keep trying!

Carrie, Make sure you complete the email confirmation. Then, you may have to refresh or close your browser to get it to work.
HTH!

Good news! We more than doubled signatures in under 48 hours. We're now at 300 names, but we have to pick up the pace even more if we expect to make the 5000 required for White House response by Nov. 2. Please keep spreading the word!

Wow that is terrific! Surrounding Patch sites are posting it as well, in the meantime, yes, keep up the momentum.

Amazingly, we just hit 500 signatures, an increase of 200 in a single day! Thanks to everyone who’s been spreading the word. To get to the 5,000 needed by Nov. 2, though, we need tens time this number , so please keeping telling everyone you know—including friends and family in other cities and states. This We the People website is getting a lot of press, so if we keep up the effort we have a good chance of making a real difference on this very frustrating issue!

In an effort to reach 5000 signatures by Nov. 2, is there any chance we could get more, or all, Patch sites to post this story and / or the link to the petition?

Hi Mary, Quite a few Patch sites have already posted it and more will most likely do so- I am checking on yet another avenue that may give it much more visibility. Stay tuned.

By the way, anyone aged 13 or over can sign the petition, so even if you've already signed it yourself, you might ask others in your household to add their names. If everyone who said yes in the Patch poll above could send this article (or the link) to 10 friends and ask them to do the same, I think we have a real shot at this! And if you want to do more, please email me. Meanwhile, thanks to Leslie and Patch--you've been a great help and continue to be so.

13 and older ..that is great! Anyway to get this to high school newspapers? Also is there a Facebook page for this? I couldn't locate it.

No Facebook page for the petition. Do you think we should have one? I was worried that asking people to join/click yet another thing might deter them from signing the actual petition. But if you think we should have one, let me know. In any case, too, there is a Facebook group called Anne Arundel County For Later High School Start Times that is promoting the We the People petition and links to many good sources of information about this issue and past efforts.

We now have a Facebook page! Petition the White House for Later School Start Time: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Petition-White-House-for-Later-School-Start-Time/125134627594206#!/pages/Petition-White-House-for-Later-School-Start-Time/125134627594206

Terra, I've been reading through all the comments plus your original post and my one big concern is the National Mandate part of this. I do not believe the federal government should be involved in state and local issues and as hard as it is for those of us who are constantly fighting the "Powers that Be" in Maryland, that is where our efforts should be focused. I do applaud you for bringing more attention to this via the White House petition drive and think you should set up a Facebook events page for more exposure. By the way, I remember when Palis made that video - Henry was one of the sleeping students she captured. Hehehehehehe.

I understand the objection to the national mandate, Amy. Furthermore, you know I generally think local school systems should be making their own decisions (and I'd like to see even smaller local school systems in this state!). However, all the petition is asking for is a rock-bottom, minimum limit on the time school systems can start. The locals can work out the details that work best in their communities. The petition doesn't even necessarily ask for federal legislation--it merely asks the White House to promote any legislature to set a minimum start time consistent with what research shows about health, safety, and learning. Local school systems often can't manage to make this happen on their own, as you know better than anyone, and this way they'll have to do it. Otherwise, what's stopping them from starting school at 3 a.m. when budgets really get tight. That would certainly save money on fuel costs!

We the People seems to have changed their signing process once again. Now it seems that to ask for a lower limit on school start times, you have to click on the petition ( http://wh.gov/2qJ ), register your email address, and wait for a confirmation via email, which will include an automatically generated password. You can then click on the link sent to you in that email and vote (or log back in later using the password they send you.) Unnecessarily difficult, I think, but well worth the effort!

In reading this proposal I visited the National Sleep Foundation paper on this. First, it doesn't appear that any of their research is 'current'. All cited papers are older than 10 years. Second, it's concerning that the National Sleep Foundation is also trademarked. Why is that? Just want folks to consider the whole story and not fall for "research says...."

I commend you for looking into this, Patti, and you're absolutely right that people should pay attention to the details of the studies. There are actually a huge number of new studies that have come out since the NSF put that "Backgrounder" together, but I thought their site was an easily accessible one for people who didn't have a lot of time. If you email me, I can point out some of the more recent work, much of which comes from researchers at Brown University, as well as the University of Minnesota. In addition, there's a man named Dennis Nolan who has a website called schoolstarttime.org. It contains more information on every single study, and every community, working on this issue that you'd have time to read in a lifetime. It's up-to-date, too (except he doesn't mention our petition; he wrote me concerned because it set the cutoff at 8 a.m. & he knows that 8:30 or later is best for high schoolers). Meanwhile, thanks again to everyone for signing the petition. We're over 900 signatures now, but if we want to see 5000 by Nov. 2, there's going to have to be a lot of emailing, Facebooking, and twittering going on in the next week!

As a high school student at severna park, I would like to put in my two cents. I like having the 7:17 start time, not because I enjoy getting up in the morning but because we get out of school at 2:05 which is a perfect time to get everything done. By school ending earlier we have time to get our homework and sports out of the way before dinner time. If school started later consequently so would practice and more of us would be up until midnight than there are already. I know that I have pulled at least two all night-ers bc practice ran later than expected. Also addressing the bus, I haven't ridden the bus to school in a while but I remember freshman year we were triple seating.

Thanks for that clarification Terra. I guess my main concern with adjusting the start time is 'what will get cut?' I'm the parent of high school athlete who leaves for school early, gets off school, attends practice, comes home and spends at least 4 hours on homework. By that time it's 9:30 pm. What's the suggested revised daily schedule? Perhaps that's in the above materials you've referenced.

Yes, the schoolstarttime.org website is incredibly thorough in giving many examples of schools that did manage to change their schedules--and evidence that not only did kids get more sleep but rates of absenteeism & truancy dropped, auto accidents decreased, and teens got more sleep! In addition, they were able to play on sports teams, hold down jobs, etc. I've lived in systems where the school hours changed, and what I saw was that the world always adjusts to school hours. (Why AA County has to have the earliest start time in the state, and one of the earliest in the entire country,or why no one consulted the public when they moved the hour to 7:17 back in the 1980s are whole other questions.) As you're beginning to see, however, whenever the idea of changing start times is raised, all sorts of concerns start coming out of the woodwork. The vast majority of them are red herrings, myths, but the opposition that inevitably arises is exactly why I think we need to set a simple minimum earliest limit on how early any school can start. I see it as a basic child proteciton law. Otherwise, what's to stop us from starting even earlier every time we need to save a little money? Why not 6 am start? Or 5? Or 4--that would certainly save on fuel costs!

Great news! We just hit 1000 signatures on the school start time petition! Every one of these signatures reflects a lot of hard work (and I’m happy to say much of it from Severna Park!). The less great news is that we’re still only 1/5 of the way to the 5000 we need in just over a week (Nov. 2) for a White House response. If you haven’t yet signed the petition, please go to http://wh.gov/2qJ to add your name. It would be wonderful if everyone who supports this idea could also help get a chain going in the next few days, starting with our own families (any American aged 13 or over can sign). Just sending a the link to 10 friends anywhere in the US and asking them to sign and send the link to 10 more, etc.—we could actually make this work. I know everyone’s busy, but please consider how much good we could do if we all just took a few minutes. It would be such a shame to squander this opportunity to bring such a critical and longstanding issue to national attention. (And, by the way, there’s a new petition on the We the People website asking that the petitions be given more than 30 days. We should sign that, too, although, ironically, this petition itself expires on Oct. 27. The link to that one is http://wh.gov/4NJ).

All AAC public high schools start at 7:17am, not just Severna Park.